For “Shōgun” creators Rachel Kondo and Justin Marks, Emmy nomination morning started early.
“Here we were listening to the roosters crow at five in the morning,” Marks said during a video call from Hawaii on Wednesday after the 76th Emmy Awards nominations were announced. “It’s so early.”
FX’s Japanese historical drama led the network with 25 nominations, including best series, best acting for leads Hiroyuki Sanada and Anna Sawai, and best ensemble for Tadanobu Asano and Takehiro Hira. “Shōgun’s” nominations helped boost its network’s total nominations to an impressive 93.
While Kondo and Marks’ morning included “a lot of tears, FaceTimes, texts and calls” with their global cast and crew, in many ways it was just another Wednesday.
“Our girls woke up and wanted to eat breakfast,” Marks said.
“The cats wanted to be fed,” Kondo added. “The dogs wanted to be fed. Everyone wants food right now.”
Set in feudal Japan, “Shōgun” follows the story of Lord Ishii Toranaga (Sanada), his abandoned English captive John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) and his vassal Toda Mariko (Sawaii). Based on the 1975 novel by John Clavell, the series was renewed for additional seasons in May.
Kondo and Marks discussed the “Shōgun” nominations, their work on Season 2 and more in this conversation edited for brevity and clarity.
Congratulations. 25 nominations is a huge number. How do you feel?
Justin Mark:There were a lot of tears shed here at five-something in the morning Hawaii time. It's been a long road to this day, and the road is still stretching out in front of us, because we were able to walk into the writers' room in a matter of minutes. We're so proud of this cast and crew who made this show what it is. None of this was obvious. We were like, how would this make sense as a big-budget show? Subtitled, period, no dragons.
Rachel Kondo: Unfamiliar faces.
Brands: And the only reason it works is because of all those who have been recognized. So it's really satisfying to look back at the sea of faces in Vancouver in the rain and the snow and the mud every night. They're all being recognized now for their hard work and for making the show what it is.
Condo: That's what's gratifying about the volume of nominations. The 25 nominations for me [and] I hope everyone can suggest how many people work on the show. This can't be a reflection of any one individual. That's why it's fun that it's just us here. I want us all to be in a room together, but it won't be like that. I think it's a testament to the collective effort and how when everyone strives for excellence, it can result in something really special and unprecedented, so it feels very… Justin just told me that the word he was looking for is “encouraging.”
Brands: It's also great because I know there are some in the group who are veterans who have been nominated many times throughout their careers, but for the most part you'd be hard pressed to find among these 25 nominees people who have been recognized before. This is really a first.
Condo: For many of us, this is our first job in the industry. It's crazy.
Brands: I say this as someone whose first job was a martial arts video game adaptation. I never thought I'd be in a situation like this today. It's surreal.
You mentioned this, but “Shōgun” is not an easy show. It obviously wasn’t easy to make, but it wasn’t easy for viewers either. The subtitles. The themes. A culture and a history that you probably aren’t familiar with. What has it been like for you to see the audience’s response to the show?
Condo: We asked a lot of viewers. We asked them to fully engage in the experience of watching the show and the fact that they did that means I feel like we're celebrating something that transcends the audience. It transcends any individual. We're basically celebrating what we can all do together when we step outside of ourselves and participate in something bigger.
Brands:It's also a testament to James Clavell and the book he wrote. At the end of the day, we just want a good story. When you find a good story [and] We can connect with it, no matter who the faces are or what language is spoken. So to see so many people who speak different languages being recognized now in the American awards conversation is just heartening.
Hiroyuki Sanada as Lord Yoshii Toranaga in “Shōgun.”
(Katie Yu / Special Effects)
The show was a group effort, but both received individual nominations for their writing. “Anjin” and “Crimson Sky” were the episodes nominated for their writing, and the latter in particular blew me away.
Brands:Caillin [Puente] and Rachel sharing credit in that episode and [“Crimson Sky”] Being one of them, that's where the tears really started this morning for me. Because Caillin, years ago, was my assistant and to see my former assistant and my wife being recognized together for all the work they did. Caillin is one of [the people] who really bled for this program for years and years and years to see it made. For her to get this done is a really moving thing.
Kondo:We were covering our mouths. We were on FaceTime and we were just covering our lips for two minutes because we didn't know what to say. We didn't even have any words.
BrandsIt's great that we're back in the writers' room for season two with the same writers who made season one what it is and whose work is recognized by this series nomination. I hope there's a lot of celebration today, but most of all I hope everyone gets back to work. We've got a lot of note cards on the wall.
Kondo:I'm looking forward to a possible mimosa. Just one.
Brands:But there are many unanswered questions. [from] Yesterday's story session, which we need answers for today, let's not get distracted and let's get the job done because more than anything, this writers room was so close in the first season five years ago and we're all going to get back together. With the weight of this show and the accolades and the success of this show, I think it's too often forgotten. [that] It has to be on the shoulders of the writers. I think all the writers should share the writing awards together because they all put on this show as a group. That's the best part of writing. I consider all these awards to be their awards. I'm excited to see the faces so we can all celebrate.
I know we're celebrating the first season, but since you mentioned the second, what made you want to continue beyond the story of the novel? At what point did you know there was more to discover?
Kondo:We always thought about what we couldn't include in Season 1. We still think about it and we're still excited about it. So it's fun to see if there's a way to move forward with it.
Brands: We've done a lot of thinking. The show isn't necessarily a reflection of the world as it is today, right? We're in the 1600s and in a different culture than the American one, at least. But in many ways, when it comes to characters like Mariko and Toranaga, it's a reflection of how we would like people to be in the world. And why wouldn't we want to keep telling those stories when the world is what it is? Sometimes it's nice to go to a world like this, where people have principles and they really stand up for them and in some cases, yes, die for them. But they really believe in what they believe in.
Kondo:Belief is the key word for me. You want to spend time with people who believe in something desperately and passionately and I don't think you can find deeper believers than these characters.
Fumi Mikado as Ochiba no Kata, left, and Anna Sawai as Toda Mariko in “Shōgun.”
(Katie Yu / Special Effects)
That brings me back to “Crimson Sky,” because that was the episode where it became clear that the show is called “Shōgun,” but it’s Mariko’s story. What’s the next chapter if her story ends?
Brands:I think the domino effect of the decision he made and the message that his life is, [are things] that have a long tail. And that echo is what resonates through the story that we keep finding. I think audiences are going to be very surprised and hopefully pleased by some of the ideas that have been in our heads for a long time that are now finally appearing on the wall. That's why I again give credit to the writers for the success of the show because so much of what this show is is what they brought to the show and their curation and interpretation and their fresh ideas to bring the play into the modern era. And it's the same people doing it again and people should have great confidence in that.
Any additional thoughts?
Brands:The fact that Hiro and Anna are recognized in the main categories is really very exciting. Not only because [they’re] There are new faces in the awards conversation, but for Hiro Sanada, this is decades of work from when he was 7 years old as a child actor to a day like this. I'm very proud to have been able to be a part of something that finally recognizes him and his extraordinary career.
Kondo:As someone who grew up not seeing someone like me on screen. I never saw it. The fact that Anna is getting recognized is something that I'm going to process for a long time because I just didn't know that certain things were possible. Because you're given what you're given when you grow up and this is beyond anything I could have ever imagined. I'm so proud of her. And it's important, I have daughters now and maybe they can see someone like her and what she's done and think that they can do things too. So it means a lot to her to be recognized in this way.
