A bright pink electric guitar hangs on a wall in the recording studio where Hilary Duff recorded her new album. The cozy, gear-filled venue near Van Nuys Airport belongs to her husband, Matthew Koma, who produced “Luck… or Something,” the singer-actor’s first LP in more than a decade. But as Duff points out on a recent afternoon, the paisley-print guitar is all his.
“I bought it when I turned 16,” he says proudly: a gift from the Fender company. “I found it in the storage unit and Matt said, 'Oh, that goes up there.'”
Before Miley Cyrus, before Sabrina Carpenter, before Olivia Rodrigo, Duff arrived in the early 2000s as a Disney kid with pop idol ambitions. She excelled in the lovably awkward lead role of Disney Channel's “Lizzie McGuire” and went on to star in family films such as “Agent Cody Banks” and “Cheaper by the Dozen.” By the time he received that guitar, he had already topped the Billboard 200 with his album “Metamorphosis,” which sold 4 million copies and spawned hit singles like “So Yesterday” and “Come Clean.”
Duff stepped away from music for most of her 20s to focus on acting and raising a family. (An attempted comeback album in 2015, “Breathe In. Breathe Out.”, didn't really go anywhere.) Now, at 38, she has returned with a bracingly honest album, filled with the texture and details of her life as a wife, sister and mother of four children.
In frank but wordy songs that layer guitars and synths over bright beats, Duff sings about trying to overcome old habits and her fear that her best days are behind her. “We Don't Talk” appears to address her estrangement from her older sister, Haylie, while “Weather for Tennis” describes her tendency to keep the peace as a child of divorce. In “Holiday Party,” she recounts a recurring dream in which Koma cheats on her with his friends.
“I wake up angry and he says, 'I didn't do anything!'” she says, laughing. “And I said, 'But you want to.' A lot of this stuff came out of the hormonal surge of, 'I just had a baby, I'm breastfeeding, and I'm trying to get my two feet back on the ground.'” (Duff and Koma have three daughters, ages 7, 4, and 1, while Duff shares a 13-year-old son with her ex-husband, former hockey player Mike Comrie.)
When asked how he expects the album to do commercially, Koma says: “No. [care]. Public perception or sales, that's all good, but it's a separate experience from why we did it.” The producer, known for his work with Zedd and Shania Twain, adds: “The goal was to make something that Hilary could feel good about being involved in.”
However, early 2000s nostalgia led to a recent run of sold-out theater concerts, and this summer will take her to stadiums around the world, including Inglewood's Kia Forum on July 8 and 9. (Less happily for Duff, an essay in The Cut by fellow millennial Ashley Tisdale also caused a viral sensation in which Tisdale wrote about leaving a “toxic mom group” that supposedly included Duff and Mandy Moore.)
Curled up on a couch in the studio control room, Duff says, “I'm finally in this place where I'm not one percent ashamed of my past and any of the things that used to embarrass me,” one of the reasons she made the bold decision to open her set at the Wiltern last month with two of her biggest hits, “Wake Up” and “So Yesterday.”
After those songs came “Roommates,” perhaps the most vulnerable track on Duff’s new album. It's about navigating a dry spell in a marriage, and the language is as vivid as it is merciless: “I just want the beginning / I don't want the end,” she sings, adding that she longs to be in the “back of a bar, giving you h-.”
A surprising choice of words.
How would you have said it? Sometimes the lyrics need to fit, they need to rhyme with something. [Laughs] It's supposed to be polarizing because it's such a desperate plea. I can say that I haven't actually given h… in the back of a dive bar. But just try to capture the feeling of a moment when you felt alive.
Like all teen stars, you had to figure out how to grow up and talk about sex as a public figure. Now there is the idea that it is better to leave it to the young people.
I finally feel like I know a lot about sex. When I was 20, sex wasn't always pleasurable, there was a lot to discover. Now I finally understand it. Maybe it's a woman thing, but I'm not ready to be put out to pasture. People come up to me all the time and say, “Wow, you've aged really well.” I'm like, “I'm only 38! Just because you've known me since I was 9…”
You're handling senior citizenship well.
When do I start receiving discounts? I feel like 38 is not old, although when I thought about my parents at 40, they looked very different than how we look now.
I always linger on those TikToks where he shows what 35 looked like in 1982.
I don't think anyone drank water back then. They were kind of powdery and crunchy.
Hilary Duff, left, and Matthew Koma at Apple Music Studios in Los Angeles in December.
(Amy Sussman/Getty Images for Apple Music)
You borrow the chorus from Blink-182’s “Dammit” for your song “Growing Up.” Because?
Blink is one of my favorite bands. I remember getting my driver's license and that's what was playing on my iPod. “Growing Up” is a very personal song for me, talking about sitting in the backyard with one of my best friends and needing to drink too much wine and vent about life. But it also feels like a love letter to my fans. I don't like saying that word, but I really feel like I've had fans for 25 years and to be able to see them now in adulthood; I didn't know I was going to have this opportunity.
What is the problem with the “fanatic”?
It puts me on a pedestal that makes me uncomfortable. If you talked to Matt or someone close to me, they'd probably say, “Hilary doesn't understand what it means to some people.” And I think that's true. When I think about myself, I'm not like a big pop star; I feel more like a woman of the people.
A woman from the village?
Can I say that? [Laughs] Is that offensive in any way? My feet hit the ground in the morning and I have a million things to do. Sometimes my baby still sleeps. And I have a teenager to prepare for school who we are always waiting for.
Why do you have four children?
I know, we are sick.
Did you expect to have four?
I thought I would have at least three. I always wanted a big family because I come from a super small family and I always wanted more siblings. Obviously I had Luca before Matt, and then we had Banks before we got married. Then the pandemic hit: we had a pandemic baby like everyone else. The fourth was just a crazy decision. Matt said, “Everyone will think we're really Christian if we go for number 4.” We also have three dogs, two cats and eight chickens.
As two artists, how do you approach the job of raising children?
I don't know if I actually said this out loud (to Matt, I sure did), but I think part of my desire to make a record came from having my fourth child. I obviously love motherhood; I wouldn't have four children if I didn't have her. But I think I felt very jealous that he had to go to work every day and be alone with his thoughts. I thought, I need to stretch. That's what I felt after baby number four: either I'm going to completely lose myself and become a stay-at-home mom and wait for the phone to ring, or I'm going to do something that moves me.
You don't need me to tell you that our culture is always happy to make moms feel guilty. Was it a journey to accepting that it's okay to do something for yourself?
That's what the healthy part of the brain says. But the other part that is programmed to be with the children you gave birth to, sometimes that part overshadows it. And it's very difficult to fight against that. I could probably cry right now thinking about all the things I'm going to miss this year.
Hilary Duff in the studio where she recorded her new album.
(Jay L Clendenin / for The Times)
You have a line in “Roommates” where you say, “Life is life and the pressure is pressing on me.” At the shows you just played, did you think your audience was in the same place in life as you?
Safely. When they shouted it to me, I thought: “Oh, you know.” That doesn't mean you have to be a parent. “Life is life” is bills, monotony, traffic and family, it's all things. I knew that if I was running around inside my head, and I've been living a pretty normal life for 10 years (as normal as possible), then people would see themselves in it.
Twenty-five years ago, you were playing for 10-year-olds. Would a 10-year-old today be interested in your new songs?
I don't think so. But I mean, I used to sing “Torn” by Natalie Imbruglia all the time and I had no idea what it was about.
The last decade has been a golden era for young female songwriters: Taylor Swift, Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo.
You forgot about Chappell Roan.
“Luck… or something” feels aligned with that ever-deepening craft. But maybe your early work seemed sophisticated to you.
I don't think the intention back then was to write sophisticated songs. Taylor Swift didn't exist yet: it's like before Christ and after Christ.
Did she change the game?
At all levels.
How did you end up at Atlantic Records? I wondered if this was a product of personal friendships: the Elliot Grainge and Sofia Richie and good charlotte of everything.
Now we are more friends personally with them. I finished making the record and for the first time I thought: “It's done, do you like it?”
You weren't looking for seal notes.
I'm not saying I haven't had meetings with A&R. But the album was practically created and that was it. I didn't shop anywhere else, which was great because I hate dog and pony shows.
Did you feel like the recording industry had chewed you up in some way?
After “Breathe In. Breathe Out,” it was very easy to say, “RCA forced me to lead this song when I knew it should have been this song.” But that was me without having [courage]you know what I mean? It was a joint effort of [messing] above. But I learned a lot from that. I don't think I would have made this record if I hadn't fumbled a little bit.
The story about the toxic mom group blew up right when you were releasing this album. Did that experience make you think about re-entering the pop world?
I mean, this is not new to me. I've had this since I was maybe 15 and the paparazzi started following me. Everything begins to be documented and everyone knows my life and all the actors who participate in it. So the stories that appear in the news are not what happens to a normal person who perhaps became an actor as an adult. And now the situation has escalated thanks to TikTok talking heads who need clickbait. It's hard because you think, “Wait, that person did it right,” and “That person doesn't know what they're talking about.” I saw something that said, “Actually, none of the moms at school like him and neither do the teachers,” and I said, “First of all…”
Do you find it easy or difficult to disconnect?
By the way, the women at school are lovely and I'm obsessed with all of them.
But can you ignore the rumors about you on social media?
It just depends on the day. Knowing that I can open the back doors and play soccer as a family, take a hot tub and go get our chicken eggs, that's the purpose of life. On days when crazy things happen, I go home and silence the noise.
